Pre-trib Vs Post-trib Rapture Argument
1 Thes4:16 "and the dead in Christ shall rise First."is that a Resurrection?
People please don't waste valuable time arguing about these 'side' issues. The enemy is using us – to keep us from focusing on Jesus.
1 Cor.15:*23-24 Wheres the PRE trib rapture heresy, hiding in that scripture, Cornelius ?
cornelius, Thankyou So Much for ReEstablishing,Reinforcing what i was Always taught+ believed! I have been christian since 1975, Esp. Rev.3:10! And the FACT That God Always protected! ie, "took them out" protected the righteous Before! Gods wrath was "poured out!" They are old test.Examples (given to us On Purpose ) But, We are Now made righteous through Jesus and His Once and For All Sacrifice on Calvary!!!
Point 4). The Feasts of the Lord. The timing of this pre-Trib view of the feast would put an interval of years in between Trumpets and Atonement this would not seem to agree with the pattern set in the first 4 Feasts being fulfilled in exactly the same year. The Post-Trib possibility that I mention earlier of Jesus coming on Trumpets, taking us back to heaven for t10 days and then bringing us with Him to Armageddon on Atonement followed by Booths 5 days later being the beginning of the Millennium and perhaps the 7 days of marriage festivities, would fit this pattern of only the given days separating these events just as Jesus fulfilled the earlier Feasts? Again I am not sure?
Point 3). Rev 12, this is a good line of pre-Trib argument, but it all hinges upon whether or not v 5 is the Rapture/Resurrection of the NT Church. The Greek word Tecknon is used prolifically throughout the gospels, when according to your own previous arguments it could not be referring to the NT Church which was still a mystery at that time? So either it referred to the Jews themselves or it just means "child?" In either case I don't think that is very good line of argumentation.As already pointed out Harpozo is only clearly used of the Rapture once, 1 Thess 4. This is only once out of many times the Rapture/Resurrection of the NT church is referenced in the NT Epistles. Many other different Greek words are used, some of which are also used in the Gospels referencing the 2nd advent. In addition Harpozo is used 13 times in the NT very clearly referencing many other events and situations other than the Rapture.If the "man-child" of v 5 is the NT church who I agree is "to rule all nations with a rod of iron," then the Trib-saints of Rev 20:4 who also partake in this ruling of the Milenium seem to be left out? I simply do not know the answer to this one, yet. I will try to watch some more of these videos on the Rev 12 sign, thankyou for bringing this to my attention.
Point 2). Who will populate the earth for the Millennium? Cornelius could I respectfully turn your arguments around and suggest that from your own pre-trib point of view you have to allow for some kind of gathering of the elect after the great Trib according to the Gospels. Presumably these Tribulation saints and martyrs will at that time receive glorified bodies since they are in the first Resurrection and reign with Christ and us for a 1000 years, Rev 20:4? Therefore even from a pre-Trib point of view, according to your own arguments there is no one left to repopulate the earth? In other words pre-Tribbers have exactly the same problem! Brother, perhaps we could both sit down at a table and see if we could come up with some answers to this mutual question, together.
Point 1). It would not be fair to characterise the Post-Trib position as only the following, the Lord coming, gathering the saints and continuing on to earth for the battle of Armageddon. There are different views on this and I myself am not yet clear on these details, perhaps Jesus comes on the day of trumpets and takes us back to heaven then 10 days later we ride forth with him to the battle of Armageddon on the day of Atonement. I do not yet know, but if there are some details with a post-Trib view that need to be clarified with regard to Rev 19 there are also some glaring difficulties with pre-Trib and that same chapter! >>> "For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and the wife has made herself ready." (v7) I thought that according to pre-Trib the marriage had already taken place at least 7 years previous to this time?
Well presented Cornelius, I like your spirit. A few points from more of a Post-Trib point of view which could b discussed. The Greek word (G1996) for gathering used in Matt 24 is basically also used with regard to the gathering of the Church (G1997) in 2 Thess 2:1. Harpozo is only used of the gathering of the Church once (that is in 1Thess 4, >>>>Rev 12 would be questionable.) Harpozo is used in other situations where there is no immediate danger, though the time just after the Great Trib, when Jesus comes with Judgement/Wrath can be well considered (from more of a post-trib position) something which we are "snatched away" from.
Second coming is not the on white horses, no where does it even say that is the second coming. This is the battle of Armageddon. We will be taken out prior to his wrath which is the great tribulation and the last seven vials. That's how we come back with him on horses. The church will endure persecution we will be delivered up to be killed if we don't accept the mark. Again nowhere does it say we will be taken out before hand. I don't want to burst your bubble again but you need to quite telling people don't worry you won't be here when all this happens. Because when it doesn't you will be left with egg on your face and confusion will surround you. Better just say be ready in any case because I'm not sure. I have a good ideal when it will happen and I suspect shortly after the antichrist declares himself as god in the temple. When Jesus come to get the church it will not be a secret whisking away, all eyes will see and witness him in the clouds with power and great glory. He comes in the clouds to get the church he comes down on the white horse in Armageddon. Men hearts will fail when they see him in the clouds and wants rock to fall on them, the Jews will see whom they pierced and there shall be morning. God protects those that flee with his supernatural power. When everyone sees us ( Born again believers) taken up then sudden destruction takes place the wrath of GOD commences. Causes the earth to open and swallow the water. So I don't want to make you feel that I'm making you look bad, I just want you to know the real truth. It was revealed to me personally.
Pre-tribulation is a satanic, false doctrine that was invented in 1820 by John Darby. You have MEN telling you this false deception. So if you believe these MEN over what scripture and longstanding Protestant and Catholic Christian history says, you will end up in Hell. This doctrine is directly helping the Anti-Christ. You should all be ashamed and repent before it's too late.
Could it be that the Fest of Trumpets is for The Elect Ones that will stay?The bride is with The Parabale of the 10 virgins.so It is not on Yom Teruah. For The Bride He will be delayed to prove our Faith(oil lamps)Sukkot perhaps?
You are not studying correctly.WHO is the Antichrist, or better yet,WHAT Is the Antichrist?Is it a man Or an IMAGE OF A MAN?Jesus is an Image not a real Messiah.Yahusha is The Real Messiah and they are not the same.You need to understand who came out of the Council of Nicaea.And the Great Deception is Christianity.Jesus is teh Abomination That desolates the temple.AN IMAGE.AN IMAGE.An IMAGE in which The LAW was ABOLISHED(Claiming The Law was abolished) and Changing The Times(feasts Given To Moses for Pagan babylonian Feasts Chritmas, Easter etc.
Here is a problemThe New testament was not written in Greek but hebrew.Constantine burned all the originals to create the Image of the MAN of Perdition.Research tehhCouncil of Nicaea.
When I read the bible that's what I get ..but there PPl who wanna shove post tribe down your throat. I hate that.
you need to read the bible.it is a mid -trib rapture not a pre-trib rapture.see pastor andersons video god bless
Awesome work brother!
Do you think that perhaps there could be a pre and post trib. Post being for those who survive after the Thousand Year Reign, after the 2nd Death. Maybe God puts into your heart which one applies to each. From my understanding, you have to Believe for it to take affect on you; so for those Christians who don't believe in Per trib or the Rapture period won't go, right?
Only a 144,000 will be rapture
Cornelius please help me. I'm coming to you to see if you can give me advice from god. I'm sorry for my sins and I have a child out of wedlock with my boyfriend and I don't want to go to hell. I feel jesus is coming and I just want god to take me, how do I do it when the last days are approaching. I believe in him and what he has done for me but he tells me in the Bible that no one not wedded is welcome in him kingdom. I've had moments of light with the Holy Spirit the last week but today the fear of god is hurting and I'm asking god to change my life and to bring my family closer to him.
I enjoy your studies brother in Christ. One question though. If the rapture happens before the antichrist is revealed…how do you interpret Rev 12 v17 where Satan is on Earth making war with the saints? Thank you for your time. God Bless you.
Very Good Work sir…Thank you
Gentiles and especially Edomites/white people will have to pay for their manifold atrocities against Yah's/God's chosen people the black African American the true Israelites. Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
During the millennial kingdom gentiles will be servants to the Israelites: Isa 14:2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. Isa.60:12 For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee (Hebrew Israelites) shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. Rev. 13:8-10 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints
a study!! excellent! full disclosure: I am a NON tribber…. please continue….. my pre-study prayer goes like this: Lord, I know you are total horseshit and the complete myth, amen…….. ok, the argument…….the rapture was revealed to Paul!?! who gives a rats ass!?!
Hello brother. I just subscribed to your channel. I have a different view on the rapture and would like to talk scripture with you. You see I believed in pre trib all my life until God showed me differently.When we study scripture it is important we keep the rules of scripture in place at all times, God gave us these rules so that we get the truth from His word and can spot false teachings when there are ones.Rules are simple, do not add or take from the word, it is as it is written with no mistakes it is perfect and final.I have studied in depth this rapture debate for yrs now, through my study I looked back on history of what has been taught since the beginning from scripture, to early church fathers and when the pre trib started to be taught in the church.Through that I learned all the early church fathers taught a post trib rapture, the pre trib truly was not taught in the church until the 1830s when the Scholfield bible came out. I also learned through keeping the rules of scripture in place that the bible teaches a post trib rapture.I ask you not mind my long posts here as I have a lot to address with what you have stated and a lot of material I would like to share with you. I will leave the other posts as comments under my post for you to read. I would like to first address your thought on the timing not being an important issue… Brother it is very important. Imagine if Noah had not listened to god and not spent yrs building the boat and saving up food… God did not build it for him, he had to do it himself. Just as God lets us know certain events that must take place before our rapture and Paul gives stern warning to us not to be deceived no matter what.If lets say your wrong, and the rapture is post trib, then how will those who listen to you be prepared? what will they do when they cant buy or sell pay for shelter food or medical care? what will happen when they find themselves in the tribulation will they lose faith based following their hearts desire rather than truth from scripture? As each yr goes by I see date setters and each time it passes with no rapture I also see people who lose faith.Just as when the great falling away takes place I believe many who believed in the pre trib rapture will be among them.With that being said I would like to show my view and why I believe it.
Could you please let me know what it means in Revalations14 where it takes about the 144,000 being taken to heaven, who are they talking about. Is it the Christians that have died or who?
Good teaching but who are the real Jews?
Mathew 27 ,,,,these are the Saints,,,post trib believer
AMEN AMEN!!!! 🙏🙌
love ur pre trib rapture debate. But when at last section of ur video like 30:00 u said ppl at the last moment they donot get saved but when u see when jesus was on the cross and there were two thieves with him okay, one of the the thief saw jesus as his salvation from his sin and asked for repentance at the very last moment, jesus accepted him for his paradise at he very last moment. so thats for the ppl who dont know jesus okay, but realise that jesus is the king at the very last moment.
Old Testament cross reference for Revelations 12–Micah 5:3, "The people of Israel will be abandoned to their enemies until the woman in labor gives birth. Then at last his fellow countrymen will return from exile to their own land."
Tribulation is not the Lord's wrath. It is Satan's overcoming the saints. The wrath of God will be poured out upon the wicked in the earth after the saved are removed. Why must they be removed? It is because fire will be poured out. For this reason, when the sudden destruction comes upon the children of darkness, the saints will be in the clouds with the Lord, both the dead in Christ and the living in Christ will be caught up with them.
He that feareth is not made perfect in Love, but perfect Love cast out all fear.
the gospel is the power unto salvation, how beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace. The gospels saves, not the understanding of the rapture. Through much tribulation do we enter the kingdom of heaven.
Very mature in your deliverance of the word of God ! Please keep it coming !
1 Thes . 4: 15- 17. This is the fulfillment of Tabernacles in the AIR. NOWHERE in this scripture does it say 'heaven'. EVIL men say so. WHEN We ask Yahweh :" WHAT is the Tabernacle of Yahweh He will show Us in the scripture." Rev. 21: 1- 3. Here we are told the Tabernacle of Yahweh is WITH men. The Tabernacle of Yahweh is the NEW Jerusalem. Rev. 21: 9- 10. Rev. 21: 9- 10. The NEW Jerusalem is the BRIDE of Yahshua. Rev. 21: 2. Zeck. chapter 14 is the second coming. Zeck. 14: 16 we are told that the nations are still ON THE EARTH after the second coming and come up to the NEW Jerusalem to keep the feast of Tabernacles for the thousand year reign of Yahweh's SON on the earth made NEW commencing at the second coming sitting on David's throne and ruling the earth as king of kings and lord of lords. NOWHERE in any of these scriptures does it say :" Go to heaven." The teaching of going to heaven is a FALSE teaching from EVIL pastors and priests. NOWHERE in the entire scripture does it say people go to heaven. Matt. 5: 5. The Meek will inherit the earth made NEW at the second coming. Matt. 5: 5 will witness against all who believe in the rapture and send them to the Lake of fire on judgement day. Matt. 5: 5. On the earth. Spoken by Yahweh's SON. Rev. 5: 10. On the earth. Spoken by Yahweh's SON to John. Isa. 11: 9. On the earth. Spoken by Yahweh's SON to Isaiah. Zeck. 14: 9. On the earth. Spoken by Yahweh's SON to Zechariah. To believe in a rapture of ANY kind you MUST totally REJECT all these plain and simple scriptures spoken by Yahweh's SON Yahshua. It is not wise to reject the scripture from Yahweh's SON. Isa. 2: 3- 4. Isa. 11:6-9. Isa. 66: 22- 23. Micah 4:2- 3. Zeck. 14: 9. Zeck. 14; 16. To believe in a rapture of ANY kind you MUST REJECT all these plain and simple scriptures spoken by Yahweh's SON Yahshua. It is not wise to REJECT the scriptures spoken by Yahweh's SON Yahshua. The entire scripture says:" Yahweh's Everlasting incorruptible Kingdom is COMING to this earth made NEW. Matt. 6: 10. Your KINGDOM COME to the earth. Enoch preached:' Your Kingdom COME to the earth. Abraham preached:' Your Kingdom COME to this earth. Moses preached:" Your Kingdom COME to this earth. Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel all preached:" Your kingdom COME to this earth. ALL the prophets preached:" Your Kingdom COME to this earth." Yahshua preached :" Your kingdom COME to this earth." Mark. 1: 15. Paul preached:" Your kingdom COME to this earth." Acts 28: 31. Rev. 22: 12. Yahshua is COMING to rule the earth made NEW as King of kings and lord of lords. Rev. 19: 16. " Yahshua WILL be King of Kings during His thousand year reign on the earth made NEW. " Rev. 20: 4 and 6. Rev. 5: 10. Yahweh's Born again SAINTS will rule WITH Yahshua on the earth during His thousand year reign on the earth made NEW. Rev. 2: 26- 28. The SAINTS will rule WITH Yahshua for the thousand years on the earth made NEW. THE ENTIRE scripture says Yahweh's incorruptible Kingdom is COMING to this earth made NEW. The rapture is an EVIL teaching. Matt. 5: 5 will witness against all who believe in a rapture of ANY kind. The scripture says that in the last days they will not endue sound doctrine. They will be turned away to FABLES. The rapture is a FABLE. 2 Tim. 4: 1- 4. These are Christians. So says Yahweh .It is a FEARFUL thing to say :" So says Yahweh." may Yahweh give you understanding in these salvation scriptures of things to come. My hearts desire is:" Rev. 22: 14. Rev. 21: 1- 4." These scriptures commence at the second coming. Rev. 20: 4 and 6. Matt. 5: 5. Rev. 5: 10. May Yahweh give you your hearts desire. bless you
Rev. 21: 9- 10. Rev. 21: 2 Yahshua's BRIDE. May Yahweh give you your hearts desire. Heb. 12: 14. Bless you
there's a common belief among post tribbers, 9× out of 10, they believe that we can lose out salvation.
your are correct, it's Pretib rapture all the way!
Yeah also another point to disprove the post trib rapture theory is if that were true, that would mean god would be pouring out wrath on himself during the tribulation since we have the Holy Spirit within us. It makes no sense
Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *