Biblical Scholar Refutes Pre-Trib Rapture

Dr. Brown discusses the relevant scriptures dealing with pre-tribulation theology with friend and colleague Dr. Craig Keener.

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  1. I bet they're not preaching pre tribulation gospel in India, Syria, China, etc, places where Christians are getting their heads chopped off for praising Jesus.
    Just like they're not preaching prosperity gospels in 3rd world countries.

  2. I believe what Jesus Himself said about His return and the Rapture of the Church. In Matt.24.29-31, Jesus plainly states that He is coming back AFTER THE TRIBULATION AND THE RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH WILL HAPPEN THEN! Good enough for me!!!

  3. Many do not understand why modern Dispensational Theology needs a pretrib removal of the Church.  The original "classic" form of the doctrine claimed that God would go back and deal with modern Israelites under the Old Covenant system during the 7 year period before the Second Coming.  What is wrong with this idea?  The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.  The New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13.  The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.  On the Day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel".  On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31.  Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant of Christ Dispensational Theology falls apart and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.  Watch the YouTube video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology" to see how the doctrine began.

  4. the temple was destroyed in 70 AD  Right ? Paul wrote 1 and 2 Thess in 50 to 51 AD  right ? that means that Paul wrote these words 20 Years before the temple was destroyed.. And We that are alive and remain will be Caught Up   Pauls use of the word WE would indicate that he expected to be Caught up in his life time..  ,,, so should we

  5. the temple was destroyed in 70 AD  Right ? Paul wrote 1 and 2 Thess in 50 to 51 AD  right ? that means that Paul wrote these words 20 Years before the temple was destroyed.. And We that are alive and remain will be Caught Up   Pauls use of the word WE would indicate that he expected to be Caught up in his life time..  ,,, so should we

  6. The revealing of the man of sin is the beginning of Gods judgments on a
    Christ rejecting world. 2 Thess2.

    Matthew 24 does not cover everything it only covers a piece of the entire end time scenario.

    Matthew 24 does not cover the man of sin being revealed. He just shows up in the middle of it.
    Matthew 24 does not cover Luke 21:36.
    Matthew 24 does not cover depending apostasy second Thessalonians two.
    Matthew 24 does not cover the dead in Christ that is covered and second Thess 2
    Matthew does not cover why Christ is restraining himself from taking the scroll in breaking the first seal
    Matthew does not cover Revelation 3:10.

    As precise as Matthew 24 is it is not all inclusive.

    The Jewish leadership rejected the messiah that is what gives rise to Matthew 24 and the coming abomination of desolation. Read that they were apostates.

    The destruction in 70 A.D. was for the Jewish leaders of Christ's time, however the abomination of desolation is for the generation of the 70th week of Daniel.

    Matthew 24 is to the religious leaders of Christ's day just the same way the apostate IN 2 Thessalonians is to the church OF THE END TIMES.

    2 Thess2. The day of the Lord can't come until there is a FALLING AWAY FIRST THEN that which restrains is removed because they love not the truth there is a generation that will reject the gospel of Jesus Christ and sub for the judgment of the man of sin coming onto the scene to perform the abomination of desolation.

    In its chronological order Matthew 24 is following second Thessalonians chapter 2. Let me explain.

    1, The gospel is preached throughout the whole world.
    2, those that have fallen asleep and WE THAT ARE ALIVE.
    3, The world becomes apostate.
    4, The man of sin is revealed, in response to the apostate. your cross reference is Revelation chapter 6
    5, The man of sin being revealed is the beginning of God's judgment. Your reference is. 2 Thessalonians 2
    " for this cause God will send them a strong delusion ".
    6, Then the scripture that says. "" When they say peace and safety"" This is the First half of the Trib.
    7, Then sudden distruction comes upon them. This is the Second half of the Trib.
    8, The abomination of desolation.
    9, then the antichrist goes after the seed of the women. Rev. 12:17
    9, Then the fulfillment of Matthew 24 with Christ's return

    The whole book of Hebrews was written to warn the Jews not to go back to the temple because it was going to be destroyed. In 70 A.D.

  7. you are mixing your references. Matthew 24 is Jesus response to two things, 1. the rejection of him by he Jewish leaders.
    2, Jesus called the disciples that not one stone would be left upon another. So the disciples asked him when would these things take place.

    The temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.
    Paul's letters to the Thessalonians were written 50 to 51 A.D.
    That's 20 years before the temple was destroyed.

    In 1 Thess 4:17 Paul told the Thessalonians that WE that are alive and remain will not proceed those who are caught up. Therefore Paul expected the rapture before the event to Matthew 24.

    Paul expected the rapture in his lifetime.
    Paul expected the rapture before one stone was not left upon another.

    The Thessalonians would have understood Matthew 24. They knew that the day of the Lord couldn't come until the temple was destroyed. In fact they knew it had to be destroyed then rebuilt by the end of Christ before Matthew 24's abomination of desolation to take place.

    But somehow today's Church doesn't understand that

    Paul told the Thessalonians did the day of the Lord could not happen until there was a generation of apostates a worldwide rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 2Thess2. For this reason God sends the apostate generation the antichrist who sits in the temple proclaiming himself as God to an apostate generation. The revealing of the man of sin is two things, 1, before Matthew 24, 2, A judgment on that generation.

    The generation in Matthew 24 cannot be the church. The generation in Matthew 24 is the generation that witnesses those things. What things??? The abomination of desolation that takes place in the middle of the 70th week following the apostate generation.

  8. 6:00 minute mark. Your called said the " The day of the Lord can't come until the Man of sin is revealed "
    this is Gravely incorrect ". the day of the Lord can't come until there's a falling away FIRST then the man of sin is revealed,
    there is a generation of apostates that will embrace the man of sin that's why he comes onto the scene.
    But not Till that generation is ready to except him, there's too many Christians around right now to except a
    man like that.

    There's far too many problems with your presentation to consider it remotely valid.

    …….

  9. Paul was expecting the Rapture of the church in his life time. 1Thess 4. "" And WE THAT ARE ALIVE""
    Notice in Matt 24.
    Jesus said. Not on stone will be left upon another.
    The temple was still standing when Paul wrote to the Thess,,
    The temple was not destroyed till 70 AD
    PAUL WROTE 1 – 2. Thess in 50-52 AD.

    2 Thess 2. Paul said. " That day can't come TILL the falling away come first,
    WHY DID PAUL JUST TELL THE THESS THAT ( That day can't come till THE TEMPL is DESTROYED ).

    Paul expected the Rapture in his life time.

  10. Question.

    the context OF Matt 24 is AS THE DAYS OF NOE. RIGHT ?
    And THE CONTEXT IS NOT AS THE DAYS OF ENOCH. Right ?

    Did Noe know that Enoch was gone ? Just saying.

    MATT 24. Is after 2 Thess 2

    The world wide apostasy happens BEFORE the restrainer is removed. Right.
    Jesus DOSNT mention these things IN MATT. 24. Because he and his disciples just left a group of apostates in Matt 23. Jesus is explaining the sign of his coming IN RELATION TO THE TEMPLE.

    It DOSNT matter who the restrainer is.

    Because. Jesus will descend with a shout.
    Because it is jesus restraint himself from taking the scroll
    Because it is jesus restraining the 70th week Daniel 9:27
    Because it is jesus restraining the day of Gods vengeance . In Luke 4.
    IT IS JESUS BUILDING HIS CHURCH. WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE STOP RESPONDING TO THE GOSPEL ?

    ….

  11. Paul said WE who are alive ''''''',,,,,,, before That Day,  what day ?  The Day of The Lord COULD  ( Mattew 24 and mark 13)   The day of the lord could NOT come till the temple was destroyed,    NOT ONE STONE WOULD BE LEFT UPON ANOTHER   1….. We who are Alive  ( his life time ) 2…… Not one stone upon another 3 …. That day can't come till theres a falling away  4 …. The apostate 5 ….the REVEALING of the man of sin 6 … THE ABOMINATION   7 … EVERY eye will see HIM   Paul Expected the Rapture Before the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD

  12. It DOSNT matter who the restrainer is.

    Because. Jesus will descend with a shout.
    Because it is jesus restraint himself from thanking the scroll
    Because it is jesus restraining the 70th week Daniel 9:27
    Because it is jesus restraining the day of Gods vengeance . In Luke 4.

    Let me explain.

    the context OF Matt 24 is AS THE DAYS OF NOE. RIGHT ?
    THE CONTEXT IS NOT AS THE DAYS OF ENOCH. Right ?

    MATT 24. Is after 2 Thess 2

    ……

  13. this was taught in the Firsty century   1 Thess 4  and WE that are alive and remain.  Paul expected the rapture in his life time.    

    before the temple was destroyed in 70 AD

  14. You are dead wrong. Revelation 6. Can't happen till there is a world wide Apostasy

    Who is restraining. Christ from taking the scroll ?
    Who is restraining Daniel 9:27
    Who is restraining "" the day of vengeance of our God in LUKE 4.

    2Thess2
    The day of the lord can't happen TILLL. TILLL WHAT ?
    There be a falling away FIRST. IF YOU ATE IN THE TRIB YOU ARE OFVTHE APOSTATE.

    The coming of the son of man IS as you said in MATT 24. However Matthew 24 is in response to the rejection of Jesus Christ by his own,, notice that. By his own people.

    Now study 2Thess2. Because the only way you will see the man of sin is if you are apostate.

    The removal of the restrainer to reveal the man of sin. Is a judgement on people that THINK they are his. Rev 3:10. AND where Jesus is knocking on the door trying to get in to the church.

    LOOK AT 2Thess2 again. The day of the lord (Matt 24 ). Can't come Till there is a falling away first.

    THIS IS A BIGGER ISSUE THAN YOU THINK. Consider Enoch. Only one was taken, then the flood came.

    There's a huge gap of time between the 483 years and the 7th years of Daniel 9.

    You haven't ask yourself WHY IS THERE A GAP. EPH 3. The dispensation of the GOSPEL OF GRACE.

    WHAT FOLLOWS THE dispensation of the Gospel of grace ?

    The rejection of the gospel of grace.

    Luke 4. The day of vengeance of our God.
    The man of sin revealed. For this cause they will believe the lie ( the world wide apostasy)
    Rev. 6. Who is restraining CHRIST from taking the scroll and braking the seal ?

    You and I, being actively involved in taking partnership with the Holy Spirit to spread the gospel.

    But there will come a day when they won't want sound doctrine. Then Christ will pull the plug.

    ……

  15. The only way your going through the Trib is if your an apostate.

    2Thess2. Make a list of events only if your serious.

    The day of the lord can't come till. Till what ?

    1, the apostasy
    2, the restrainer removed. ( Dost not matter who we think it is )
    3, the man of sin is revealed.

    Why is the man of sin revealed ?

    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: ( the lie that the anti christ is god sitting in the temple as God ).

    12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth

    Notice the word. THEY. This is NOT THE CHURCH.

    The man of sin is revealed to a Christ rejecting world.

    1thess4.

    Notice the word WE.

    And WE that are alive and remain.

    Paul expected the Rapture in his life time. So should we. At any moment if you don't your suspect to the apostate.

    Are you an apostate. ( ????? ) Them stop telling people it's ok to accept the post Trib death trap.

    ….

  16. Pre Trib rapture,,, hold on to your hat.

    Question. Are you an Apostate. No you are not. Therefore you will not see the man of sin revealed unless you are of the Dead in Christ. However that would put Paul alive after us and during the 70th week of Daniel. That's even a bigger impossibly.

    And WE who are alive and remain.

    Paul expected the Rapture in his life time. So should we. The rapture is the restrainer being removed.

  17. ". Now conserving the day of the lord and our gathering unto him "

    Your guest uses the phrase " TIES TOGETHER "

    What would you say if I said ? Now concerning Christmas and my birthday. YES I TIED THEM TOGETHER. but there's still a serious problem. You would only have to ASSUME they were on the same day.

    … so are they ? The only way they are the same is if we deny that the restrainer is the rapture.
    Never mind who the restrainer is for a moment. Let's talk about why there is a restrainer. And why are the 490 years of Daniel 9 not contiguous ? Why is there a gap ? Why dose Paul tell us there is a dispensation. Not revealed to the generation of the 483 years of Daniel 9 ?, Ep 3. Why dose Jesus say there is a way to escape theses things, Luke 21:36 and in revelation 3:10.

    ….

  18. 6:33. ". Who will be there to populate the tribulation ? , Those that have rejected Christ. The patience of the saints is enduring to the end. Those that trouble you will god recompense at his coming. It dost say in your life time. Your logic would imply that those that have died have not been vindicated.

    The apostasy is your key verse here. The apostasy happens first. Right ? Then I would suspect that when the man of sin is revealed. There would be NO BIBLICAL BELIEVING CHRISTIANS LEFT. IN THE DAYS OF NOE. THERE WAS ONLY ONE TAKEN. ENOCH. ARE YOU AN APOSTATE. NO. THEREFORE YOU WONT SEE THE MAN OF SIN REVEALED.
    So we will either die or be RAPTURED BEFORE THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED.

    LOOK. JESUS Said to the Pharisees " I have come in my fathers name you receive me not but there is one that comes in his own name and him you will receive ".
    The man of sin will get revealed after a world wide global apostasy and rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

    The church does not go through the 70th week of Daniel. There are people that come to faith because of the 70th week of Daniel. However. We believe that the apostasy and removal of the restrainer marks the end of Paul's dispensation of the gospel. Ep 3.

    1, the apostasy
    2, the dead in Christ
    3, we that are alive and remain are caught up
    4, the restrainer removed
    5, man of sin revealed. First half, peace and safety. Rev 6
    6, abomination of desolation. Second half
    7 every eye will see him.

    You would have us believe.
    1, the apostasy
    2, the restrainer removed
    3, man of sin revealed. First half, peace and safety. Rev 6
    4, abomination of desolation. Second half
    5, the dead in Christ
    6, we that are alive and remain are caught up
    7 every eye will see him.

    How is this coming? As a thief in the night. If you fill in all the details of the second half of the Trib. You could count the days till Jesus returns.

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