Is Adam Historical? A Conversation with Two Leading Scientists.
The question of the historical Adam is one of the most widely discussed and debated issues today within theology, science, and philosophy. In this lively conversation, Sean brings together two leading Christian scientists, Josh Swamidass and Fazale Rana to discuss their different models for making sense of the historical Adam.
READ:
(1) The Genealogical Adam, by Josh Swamidass (https://amzn.to/3cR8eUS)
(2) Who Was Adam? by Fazale Rana (https://amzn.to/2yInZPs)
SUBSCRIBE TO THE CHANNEL:
https://www.youtube.com/user/Seanmcdo…
*Get a MASTERS IN APOLOGETICS or SCIENCE AND RELIGION at BIOLA (https://bit.ly/3LdNqKf)
*USE Discount Code [SMDCERTDISC] for $100 off the BIOLA APOLOGETICS CERTIFICATE program (https://bit.ly/3AzfPFM)
*See our fully online UNDERGRAD DEGREE in Bible, Theology, and Apologetics: (https://bit.ly/448STKK)
FOLLOW ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA:
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Sean_McDowell
TikTok: @sean_mcdowell
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/seanmcdowell/
source
Why might the supposed by the religion Judaism first man and woman having anything to do withe way brought by christ?what is the magic in Judaism for non Jews?-There neither are nor can be any christians, but regardless of that, why do some that delude themselves that the might be able to be able to christians which of course they cannot suppose there to b magic in the documents of a religion that has fuck_nothing to do with the way brought by christ?
What does " historical" add to Adsm? What is the difference between" the historical Adam" and any other kind of AdM which is simply code for the first man.? The authors of genesis had to get round the chicken/egg problem as applied to men(humsns) so they had to come up with a narrative device – a deus ex machina to get round the problem which -come to think of it, is almost certainly how the idea of god got invented – or had to be contrived – It is simply a convenient narrative device. There being no otherway round the problem so you simply invent a way round it – simply *Invent god. Why not? Iy's as good an explanation as any. Obviously pure invention but why not?
A question I have concerning the Adam and Eve issue(s) is how what the Lord has told us concerning spiritual death for the entirety of the human race being a result of Adam and Eve’s sin fits in. We all died in Adam, but can be made alive in Christ. To my mind, that sort of narrows it down to one man and one woman ( human ) originally, from which we are all dead spiritually until we are made alive by, and in, Christ.
Love Fazale Rana. I am not an old earth creationist like RTB but Rana's work has always appealed to me.
OMG. What kind of thinker doesn't recognize the mythic nature of the language and content of Genesis? ANYONE who's ever studied language and culture instantly recognizes Genesis as myth. A myth may be defined as a story that tells truth but not FACT. One truth in the Garden story: Human being are inclined to do what they should not. That doesn't make the story FACT, however.
I'm amazed that people can spend 90 minutes discussing the "historic" Adam as the first man. Next thing you know, they'll be bringing their feather dusters along so they can brush the dirt off Adam; after all, he's made from dust….
I had an aha moment at 46;00!!
If you want a real debate than you should invite a creationist scientist and an evolutionist scientist who pretends to believe in God
Both are willingly or unwillingly denying God as creator of us as human from nothing
Both are not able to explain the clear contradiction between secular science and the Bible claims
How does Adam and Eve’s sin then screw the rest of humanity? Pretty sure I’m not responsible for someone else’s sin.
What would Josh say about virgin birth of Jesus and His resurrection… It sounds stupid in terms of science, yet it is the Truth
Wonderful and courteous conversation, Sean, Josh, and Fuz! –an old friend of Dr. John Bloom
Great job Dr. McDowell it's funny original I was like this might be too heady for most and even myself and I like this kinda stuff. I got about halfway through it and gave up but then I came back bc the next day I couldn't stop thinking about the interview haha well done! All around
this guy is full of you know what. the bible has genealogical lists, they may not be complete, but can not be stretched evangelastically like this abiblical person espouses.
I'm NOT a scientist, but I DO enjoy a good discussion that sparks the mind… and I realize this comment is very delayed from the online discussion. Fuz and Josh (around 1:18:00) talked about humans outside the garden and Neanderthals, along with interbreeding, etc. Fuz mentioned theologians haven't really discussed this. Here's my thought/question – and I'd love to get some good feedback or scholarly opinions if possible.
I have presuppositions, which are a literal 6-day creation, with a literal Adam and Eve as the original (and only) humans through which all others came, and I realize that is a separate topic.
What if the Neanderthals are humans (descended from Adam)? What about Neanderthals being post-flood families dispersed after the flood because of the tower of Babel and Peleg (Genesis 10 and 1 Chronicles 1)? And what about the thought of Neanderthals possibly being either the actual or offspring of the Nephalim? How would any of that change the ideas of Fuz or Josh?
Thanx in advance!
HOLY CRAP!!! The hurdles we jump to keep our faith in Jesus, I swear. That's EXACTLY why we are continually TRYING to push Modern science (which is getting BETTER everyday) into the bible…cause we can't live without God…..And Jesus…..right and wrong….sin which He came to die for. Cause if there isn't any original Adam and Eve then they didn't ACTUALLY fall into sin…it was just an analogy of the human condition…and that means there was death before sin…and if that's the case, what did Jesus come for? It's totally understandable why people just chuck the whole thing and say…?????
But how the hell do we live in a world where there actually isn't sin….which we ALL can blatantly see the outworking of. And life screams that there's something more….that we are more than the sum of our parts. I can't help but think….the odds of the earth…fine tuning. Man…I have no idea. Everything Jesus spoke about with sin and the heart of man was ABSOLUTELY correct…..so….trying to make that square with prehistory, archeological issues, the age of the earth and a bunch of other crap is just….(facepalm) Jesus can't say we weren't pulling for him when we meet Him face to face.
The best interpretation of the explanations given by the bible about the origins of life, is simply that it is completely wrong on every aspect.
That is what a scientist would conclude.
And so the woman was born out of Adams's rib, Mr scientist?
Are you guys making fun of people? Have you read the bibles' Adam and Eve?
This is an insult for those who have actually read the bible.
You give scientists a bad name……
Just wondering if Fuz Rana's proposition that Neanderthals were incapable of symbolism seems less tenable these days. The Gorham Cave (Gibraltar) neanderthal find of what looks like early Art may, along with other findings elsewhere (now we're actually looking for it) may not support Rana's framework.
I have the answer: René Girard.
Adam was historical.
Sin came into the world through one man Adam.
The earth is 6,000 years old.
Evolution is a lie.
God simply spoke the universe into existence.
First of all we must establish also the tree to the knowledge of good and evil is not a physical tree, and the Tree of Life is also not a physical tree, so if these trees are not physical they must be spiritual, therefore we are speaking of a spiritual garden not a physical one, and it is this spiritual garden we find within Adam and Eve, their spiritual position their spiritual world, because the whole Bible is speaking of the transformation of the heart not the transformation of The flesh, looking at the heart of man and the fruit he produces in this world by the power of his flesh, if I hate my brother I am a murderer, this is a spiritual position, if I drive a knife into my brother I have murdered him physically, but this physical movement has come out of a spiritual position ,remove hate from my heart and I cannot murder, we must go back to genesis and recognise the true nature of these things ,to find the truth of the matter because even though flesh exists, the spirit exists also, and it is there we find the truth.
Sean, you should invite Jason Lisle on your show if you are interested in balance .
It's true that we must not sacrifice what's right to assert what we think is right. But we often forget that God's word is right. So we cannot question God's word because our "evidence" seems to contradict his word.
Fuzz is fuzzy. He doesn't know? Why not, does he intentionally avoid this? That is the ONLY way he can't know that Adam and Eve never happenned
Swamidass is hilarious. Almost every time I see him (minus the interview with Doug Axe) on one of these programs, he gets giddy like a young child. So sweet.
https://youtu.be/deV99oPnKlI
As a Christian, I just can't wrap my head around evolution. I try but it consistently feels like trying to mix oil and water.
"Is Adam Historical?" No. It's absurd.
If we try to say God is anything different from how he presents himself in Scripture, then we set ourself up as a god and Satan turns gleeful somersaults. Or if we twist His holy Word. What does scripture SAY? I had a very hard time listening to this gentleman. He is leading people astray. Look at the scientific evidence as presented at Answers in Genesis.
Very disturbing to me that mainstream evangelical Christianity seems to espousing more and more an old earth paradigm. This seems ultimately irreconcilable with a natural, straightforward reading of Genesis.
Do we need to have a PhD to understand the Bible then? Then why translate to languages where education is mostly elementary.
Mainstream approach is right, Fuz. But are we to look for scientific mainstream which has been wrong in the past. The Bible is the TRUTH.
Bona-fide distinct approach?
How do you know God intended Adam and eve were intended to mix with outside of the garden "humans", joshua?
Were the humans outside of the garden the lesser kind then? Could this be the innate reason why there's racism now? There is no indication God created these "humans" nor says were in his image. Does that make them lesser humans in God's perspective biblical speaking?
How do you feel about what William Craig says about Genesis in his new book, Sean ?
If you believe in a literal historical adam and eve as it is written the Bible, then how do you have an acceptance/ respect with an evolutionary Adam as Joshua is discribing, Sean?. Maybe I misunderstood you in this segment….
The scientific theory of evolution by natural selection is the best explanation we have for how life became so diverse on earth, and how all life on earth has evolved from a common ancestor. These "Christian scientists" are just using wishful thinking.
The Bible says once Adam sinned man was made in the image of fallen Adam. The image God refers to man having the attributes of God in a sinless state. Once man fell then sin corrupted that image and man still had those attributes but in a fallen sinful state. This is why Christ is called the second Adam. When we become Christian he restores the sinless attributes on us through the imputation of His image on us and God then sees us sinless through Christ actions on our behalf.