Today we’re joined by Bradley Pierce, president of the Foundation to Abolish Abortion and VP of Heritage Defense, to discuss the abortion abolitionist movement and what it broadly believes. First we explain what some of the differences might be between abolitionists and pro-lifers, one of which is that abolitionists largely believe in criminal charges for a woman who gets an abortion. We discuss what justice for abortions might look like and how to balance impartiality and compassion for those misled by the media and the abortion industry. While it may seem like abortion abolitionists and pro-lifers are on the same side, much abolition legislation has been struck down by the pro-life camp – why is this, and what other criticisms of the pro-life movement exist from the other side? Abolitionists also don’t believe in abortion restrictions, such as heartbeat bills, unless they are full bans (and in some cases have other qualifications). We discuss this rejection of incrementalism and ask what the proposals are that replace this method of fighting abortion. Will abolition legislation put women at risk who have had miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies, and why do abolitionists attack pro-lifers online? We cover these questions and more.
Bradley’s Twitter:
Foundation to Abolish Abortion website:
https://faa.life/
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Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
01:11 What is abortion abolitionism?
11:14 Partiality & compassion to those misled
17:17 Do pro-lifers give into the pro-choice view?
22:22 Who is opposing abolitionist laws?
25:57 What about ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages?
28:43 Death penalty & struggle between feelings and logic
36:15 “Abolitionists are misogynists”
39:33 Incrementalism
52:55 Abolitionists attacking pro-lifers
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Is the Pro-Life Movement Fake? | Guest: Bradley Pierce | Ep 844
source
Ron Desantis is the Fake
I enjoyed this conversation but I'm still not on board with the abolitionist movement. As someone who has had two traumatic miscarriages at home AND has experienced an unjust legal case (not related) I think Bradley is putting far too much faith in the legal system. Juries make mistakes sometimes. My friend had a miscarriage at 12 weeks and almost died due to excessive blood loss. I can't imagine her then being questioned by some over zealous prosecutor who might not believe she's had s spontaneous miscarriage.
Thank you so much for having Bradley Pierce on your show. Abolition needs to overtake the pro-life movement. It is the only biblical way to fight the sin of abortion.
A couple of thoughts. I agree with his conclusions, but he is not an especially critical thinker. He begins his position with a foregone conclusion, and grasps pieces of support from scripture that suit him, and he uses some liberal interpretations of scripture to support his point of view. He's not horrible, but he's certainly not the iron-clad voice of reason. Also, there is a "secular" argument that indeed shoots down people who are pro-abortion, and it doesn't need to rely on scripture. Instead, it is simply this: It's always wrong to murder a human (most agree). If we are unsure if someone is technically human, we have to err of the side that they are indeed human because the possibility of human life is at stake, and that's not worth risking in cases where "science" and people are unsure.
Thank you for asking all of the questions we would ask and representing all of the naturally opposing arguments to allow him the opportunity to speak on it, especially in regards to the sometimes feral approach of some abolitionists. This was so edifying
Excellent discussion. The truth needs to be spoken on the differences between the pro life organizations and abolition of abortion. Thank you for making this information available. Praying for the end of abortion in our land.
I’m 74 years old. I was actively involved in the prolife movement from 1984-1996. I chose to belong to a state chapter of National Right to Life that worked through legislation.
Thanks for this episode. I had no idea this existed and thought he made excellent points. It has given me much to consider. The only point I am unsure about is regarding voting NO on legislation that bans abortion in some way. So, voting YES for banning abortion after 6 weeks is voting yes to make a murder illegal. That’s positive. It would be like saying, I won’t vote yes to a bill that says we can’t murder black people because it doesn’t include other races. The bill is still good and still in line with God’s word even if it doesn’t include everyone.
So the child sacrifice issue (abortion for the leftist) is really simple intellectually….At conception, What is the woman pregnant with?..a human, Is it wrong to kill an innocent human? Yes. Therefore child sacrifice (Abortion) is wrong and should be illegal.
The fundamental principle that The USA is founded upon, is that our inherent, inalienable, indubitable, indefeasible rights are granted to us by GOD, so therefore it’s impossible to claim something as a right if it violates GOD’S Law. If it’s outside of GOD’S Law, it’s only acting under the color of law!
The historical custom of The USA is Christianity, our Founders weren’t debating over which “religion” was correct, they were only interested in protecting the religious freedoms of every Christian denomination; so therefore every other religion is irrelevant.
I challenge anyone to show another religion besides Christianity written in ANY of our 51 Constitutions.
We the People are đź’Ż Christian nationalists!
🙏🇺🇸! ✌🏻!
In JESUS Name! Amen!
Well, Eve was deceived, but she was still kicked out of The Garden.
I don't think it's so hard really: Would anyone advocate murdering a born baby? No. The same should be true concerning the unborn baby.
Given these two things i believe:
1. The current state of our culture causes many women to believe that they are not killing their child in abortion
2. The act of prosecuting and going through due process is a significant punishment in and of itself regardless of verdict
Would a law that sunsets protections/amnesty for women who commit murder by abortion be ok? Basically a grace period (2 years?) That allows the time needed for the law to become a teacher. I understand there should not be partiallity, but I think practically the risk to prosecute many women who lack the Mens Rea needed for a murder conviction is so high initially that protections should be granted initially?
Basically i would argue for the principle of equal justice tempered by forbearance in mercy.
I think it's simply impossible to avoid jailing innocent women for miscarriage if anyone passed a bill like that. All you have to do is look at countries that already do criminally prosecute women. A good example is El Salvador where they have droves of women imprisoned after having miscarriages or stillbirth. And that's another horrific angle to this. For women in high risk pregnancies, are police now going to be required to investigate every still birth? Every high risk pregnancy with PPROM with infections? I literally cannot imagine that.
I almost died from those pills when they were given to me by my ob for a 12 week missed miscarriage. I did this to avoid the option of a non medicated D&C. My body also hadn’t naturally miscarried after a week had gone by knowing he was passed. My husband and the er doctors saved my life. My baby’s grave was my bathroom toilet, as the medication expels everything from you down there. I had to have a blood transfusion and still ended up with a painfully non medicated D&C in the er to remove whatever hadn’t come out with the baby and placenta. I had to go back into the hospital exactly a week later for a massive blood clot removal. I cannot believe those pills are passed out like Tylenol. They can be deadly and I cannot imagine going through such a sad and dangerous process alone.
Think of this FACT: a woman who has an abortion has a 75%………75%….75% HIGHER RISK OF CANCER!! How much MORE with SELF-INDUCED abortion….How many studies do you hear about talking about…that!
Great episode!!!
Abolition is not just a rebranded pro life movement but holds fast to the 5 tenets of abolitionism.
Biblical
Gospel centered
Church Driven
Providential
Immediate
it’s because unfortunately, nothing in politics will stand if you bring religion into it. in order to seriously utilize the prolife movement to make changes in legal policy, you can’t strictly use religion :/
Turns out I've been an abolitionist this whole time. Cool.
How about this.. anti abortionist advocates should act on their own and take it upon themselves to adopt and take care of ALL these children who live in the foster care system getting taken advantage of, innocence taken before they hit 7 years old. Babies who were born to be thrown in a trashcan and die. I don't see any Christians taking this to heart. All I hear is just that. Talk. Discussion. Casting judgment. I grew up in the church. And have heard it all.. just never seen action, just people jumping on a bandwagon.
Truth is most people don't know the difference and splitting hairs over these difference or taking them such extreme fundamentalist viewpoints does not advance the anti-abortion agenda… in fact it sets it back. You don't need to compromise your faith but you need to be strategic when applying your faith to a sinful culture when it comes to changing it. Good luck getting anyone outside of an extreme fundamentalist to buy in to this approach.
After listening to this interview I am sold on this movement. I've thought this for so long, but could never put it together until I heard the term "abortion abolitionist" last year. It stuck and this was the first interview I've listened to fully explaining it. When I shared this on my social media I was shocked at the response from other pro-life advocates. Telling me it was "radical" and misrepresented the prolife movement. God is really drawing the line in this current cultural rot. Are we hot, cold, or lukewarm? Thank you Allie. You're def one of my faves!
Thank you for spreading awareness!
Allie, a dnc after a miscarriage or an emergency procedure to treat an ectopic pregnancy would both have medical evidence – a doctor’s order detailing why the treatment was administered.
Abortion kills a healthy baby in a healthy womb.
I also want to add that our having allowed abortion with impunity in our society has actually brought about the hardening of hearts. The culture moved from abortions done in secret to hide another sin to repeated abortions as birth control, to now shouting your abortion.
As believers we are called to hold space for righteousness but we haven’t. The true Church; the Bride of Christ is called to be salt and light. We are called to be set apart; having a posture toward holiness so that we glorify God; that we would carry the fragrance of life to those who are being rescued while representing the stench of death for those who are perishing. But Christians don’t want to offend. Yet the scriptures say, “Better is open rebuke than hidden love. Wounds from a friend can be trusted, but an enemy multiplies kisses.” – Proverbs 27:5-6
I’m currently knee-deep (and working) in the pro-life movement, and I silently wrestle with this every, single, day because, rather than deal with the sinful response to their circumstances, the culture is that of cementing that women are 100% passive victims.
Here we are, having the opportunity to call a woman to repent; to submit to and trust the God of the Bible and we treat her as if she were a helpless victim. So, is she God’s victim? NO!
She needs to repent. Women need to repent. Jesus is saving those who repent. GRACE is for those who repent.
“Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.” – Ecc 8:11
There is no other
valid position on this matter that reconciles with scripture. Jesus confronted sin. “Go and sin no more.”
The woman at the well probably had attachment issues. She was probably a abandoned or neglected by her father. She may have even been the last born of 15 siblings and suffered from neglect. Her “many husbands” may have been her repeating self-sabotaging patterns. But beneath all of that, the moment became about her facing the Holy One.
I was that woman at the well and often think: “He didn’t come for the water; he came to rescue me from the deceitfulness of my own sin. He came for me!”
Underneath every hurt, every human sorrow, each of us is guilty of personally sinning before God.
I spent my youth blaming my parents for my wrong choices. I believed that my decisions were the result of their sin. Then Jesus saved me and drew me to his WORD and I found myself spiritually naked. All of the wrongs against me dissipated. It was God and me and I realized – I sinned against God every time others had sinned against me. I was overcome with personal conviction for MY sin against God. Everyone else’s sin became inadmissible the moment I saw ME through the eyes of the God of the Bible. That must have been what my Samaritan friend at the well felt. No air between her sin and Jesus’ holy eyes. Everyone else’s sin was unreservedly dismissed until only hers remained.
It was then that she had eyes to see…Redeemer.
Oh, how I would love to be a part of Bradley Pierce’s organization. Praying for the Lord to remove the scales from the eyes of legislators. I live in Florida, where we have a majority conservative legislature and yet, NARAL ranks us the state with the 5th largest number of abortions committed.
Heavenly Father, hear our cries and please bring repentance to our Ninevah….that what is TRUE may ring out across our nation and overflow in to the rest of the world.
Oh Lord, please bring about such a deep repentance that America would begin to export life rather than death.
In our Redeemer’s Beautiful name, Amen
*Thank you for this podcast, Allie. ❤
I'm not in the habit of splitting hairs over nuances without distinctions.
Yes, as an advocate for criminalizing abortion, as a Christian, we ARE using God's Word as the foundation of our beliefs and arguments, because, well, without the objective transcendent standard, it doesn't matter how many babies are murdered in utero.
So, now, it all comes down to strategy. How are we going to criminalize abortion in a culture that largely disagrees…?? We have to change the hearts and minds of the culture. That's NOT going to happen overnight. In light of that, here's my question: Why does it matter if we call ourselves abolitionists or pro-lifers?? Who's doing a better job of dramatically reducing the number of slaughtered preborn people?? Abolitionists or pro l8fers?? I don't think any of us are doing a good job of this. Over a million abortions a year since the early 70s is a GARBAGE track record. So, how about we stop pointing the finger at each other and focus on THE enemy?? That would be the progressive left.
Pro-lifers believe life in the womb is slightly or a little different, or SOME pro-lifers??? Allie, that's not a fair characterization.
How come nobody ever mentions the fathers!?!?
They have a duty to protect their children, but cannot do so, because they have no legal ground to stand on. Promoting “pro life” slogans like “love them both” only further perpetuate the pro choice/pro abortion narrative that it is a woman’s issue… This is a family issue, and should be addressed in Family Court. Just like if it were a born child…
I always thought it was weird that some mothers get off the hook for killing.
this argument is shamefully un-american; religious states are the most repressive on earth.
I'm pro life. No abortion.
A baby begins at conception.
When mom and baby quill die. Saving one of them. Is a must. It's up to mom at that point. Try to save both. Until you can't. My Friend had a miscarriage and the baby survived. She was barely turning three months along. That proves they are more than an embryo.
Some sticky issues:
1) An adult woman engaged in sex uses her agency and risks pregnancy, so the pregnancy is not a voilation of her agency. However, a child or adult women who have been raped have been robbed of agency, so the pregnancy is a violation of agency, and the government forcing her to carry that pregnancy also robs her of agency.
2) Life of the mother is at risk (ligitimatly), or non-viable pregnancy — what's the mechanism that allows the doctor to carry out her wishes that doesn't violate her HIPPA rights?
3) The father wants the baby but the mom doesn't.
These aren't sham issues, they happen.
I hope in these cases the mom carries the baby to term. I don't know that you can legislate it.
Abolitionists have saved exactly 0 babies through the legal process, while pro-lifers have saved thousands. Seems pretty clear who to follow
My wife and I enjoyed meeting you last week at G3, Bradley.
5 Solas from Buffalo.