Aren’t Good Non-Christians Evidence That God Isn’t Required to Live a Moral Life?
Greg and Amy answer the question “How do you respond to an atheist or agnostic young person who knows kind, loving non-Christians and believes that’s evidence that God isn’t required to be transformed to live a satisfying, moral life?”
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The hardest people for God to reach are the the lukewarm. They're so nice to others and good citizens, but become offended when Jesus and the bible are introduced, as He rocks the ship they're floating on.
Thank you
Even when Christians pose a Moral argument for God, we do not claim that only a Christian can be moral. We claim that no atheist has any grounds for trying. Morality requires a moral standard, otherwise one is merely doing actions which one prefers to do.
Take the 10th rule of the Pythagorean order: "Assist a person who is loading freight, but not when that person is unloading freight." The actions prescribed and proscribed in that rule are "Moral" if, and ONLY if, we subscribe to the Pythagorean order's rules. Could we do those things? Yes, of course. Does that make us more or less moral than other people? No, not at all. So we have the capacity to be "good" according to the Pythagoreans, but no reason to do so.
This is true of all moral systems, including the general moral ideas prevalent in modern society. They make sense to follow if, and only if, we believe that there exists a God who wishes for us to behave in a certain way. If we do not believe that, we can STILL comply with the moral ideas of our society, but we have no reason to do so.
And as the video points out, morality is not the end of Christianity: It is a waypoint to teach us that we are imperfect and immoral and need reconciliation with God through the atonement of Jesus. When Paul tells us in Galatians 3:24, that the law was our "schoolmaster," that is the entire point: Morality exists to teach us that we are immoral — not to make us moral.
(11:22 on that note, Eichmann was in charge of the Holocaust and more important than his rank showed since it was essentially a covert operation and position. So Heydrich and Himmler were more aptly called the architects, but it was a joint effort of MANY lawyers and politicians etc. Still, Eichmann was involved in and in charge of almost everything regarding the H*locaust, including the sh*oting squads. So his superiors technically bore more responsibility but were all dead. Architect isn’t quite the right word, not because it makes him seem more important than he was, but because it makes him seem more detached. Anyway, I just wanted to put that in there because history remembers and teaches his lies about himself and as truth. That he was a simple foolish man caught in impossible circumstances.)
I was a nominal Christian throughout my teens, until Christ met me in my 20s.
I thought I was a "good" person.
I never murdered or was actively malicious or deceitful, certainly I thought I was better than most people.
But I was a fool.
The Lord met me and showed me His holiness and my sinfulness.
It was His grace that taught my heart to be terrified of the Holy Living God, and it was His grace my fears relieved.
Even your morally utmost, is like a laughable speck of dust in the presence of the Holy and Perfect Lord God.
Being morally good is as helpful to your salvation, as running and jumping into the Pacific would get you to Hawaii.
Jesus did not come to make us nice and kind, He came to give us life and redemption from sin and death.
The good and righteous things we do, we do because we are loved by Him, not in order to receive love at all.
We love, because He first loved us.
No matter how good a person may seem, sooner or later they are going to fall. Even a man after God's own heart, the Biblical King David, ended up committing adultery and murder. Sometimes we get so caught up in the politics of the world that we forget about the true nature of our fallen conditions – we forget about sin-nature. There is no leader on the face of this planet I will ever trust, and that's because I am aware of humanity's sin-nature. You see, it doesn't matter how good we try to be, sooner or later, we are going to fall. This is a fact of life. People may change, but their sin-nature doesn't. Only one man in history was able to keep the law, therefore becoming a worthy sacrifice for the atonement of sin. His name was Jesus Christ, and thanks to his death and resurrection, believers no longer have to worry about sin-nature, as we are a new creature in Christ. Romans 3:20-23 says, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."
What us the name of the romanian torturer?
"I can be good without God" shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the Christian message.
We are very good to justify our own actions and motives. But if you want to know the truth, listen to what your enemies have to say about you. They won't pull any punches. And that is one of the reasons why Jesus warned his followers about judging others. All the sins of the entire world were paid for on the cross by the blood of Jesus. But those who reject that, remain in their guilt, and will be judged by their own demand for justice. But since God's standards have already been completely satisfied on the cross, God will judge the unbelievers by their own standards, and with the same severity with which they judged others. In the same way they never pulled any punches when judging others, God will treat them the same way. Nobody is able to live up to his own standards, unless he rigs them in his own favor. But he's only fooling himself, not God. With the same standards by which they judge others, they themselves shall be judged.
Two thoughts…
First of all, if we are all capable of leading moral lives because we have some innate sense of morality, then there is no reason to refer to any deity or anything external to our minds for our morals.
Secondly, if we are incapable of complying with God's standards, then those standards are unreasonable, and a deity that enforces them is unjust.
Excellent point that it sounds like they missed the real point of Christianity. It’s not to make us nicer. Love your point that our standard is Jesus not each other. The sermon on the mount convicts all. Blessed Christmas to you all there at STR. 🙏✝️
The Apostle Paul stated: "his conscience was clear". Doing evil all the while thinking they're doing Gods work is why they feel no guilt…waking by faith
"Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. "NO ONE IS GOOD — except God alone".
"If you then, THOUGH YOU ARE EVIL, know how to give good gifts to your children …"
Jesus did not come to make bad people good or good people better. He came to give dead people life.
Amen 🙂🙏 very good podcast. All of us are guilty before God. Even what we would consider the "nicest person" in the world.
Regenerated but not converted is a thing.