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Evidence for the Soul: A Conversation with J.P. Moreland

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The evidence for the existence of the soul is stronger than many people think. In this video, I interview philosopher JP Moreland about how we know the soul is real and why it matters. Join us and ask your toughest questions!

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31 Comments

  1. Moreland's explanation of functionalism is the worst I've ever heard; I have to wonder if he's ever talked to an actual functionalist, because it sounds more like he has some garbled version of behaviorism in his head (and has probably strawmanned even that). His discussion of the view that consciousness emerges from brain activity (which he incorrectly summarizes as saying that "consciousness squirts out" but cannot affect brain activity) conflates multiple interpretations of the word emergence and takes the least sensible version for no particular reason. Many more unexamined assumptions and questionable summaries of his opponents' positions here, but these two are particularly egregious. If you want to hear from a dualist who understands his opponents' positions and can look at the arguments clearheadedly, read David Chalmers.

  2. A very interesting discussion… thank you
    I’m intrigued by people who seek immortality by having their bodies cryogenically frozen (‘vitrification’) – assuming that it’s even possible for their bodies to be revivified at some stage in the future, would they even be ‘alive’?
    And then… while it’s only happened in the movies, what would happen if brain transplants were to become medically possible – if A’s brain had to be transplanted into B’s body, will B now be A or will A be B?
    The only critique I have, is the fact that you never once appealed to Scripture for an answer to your question… the fact that God (Spirit) created man in His image (Gen 1:27) before He gave FORM to man (Gen 2:7)…

  3. The Hebrew word "nephesh," which is often translated as "soul," can refer to both humans and animals alike, it can refer to a person, it can be kidnapped, it can refer to a pronoun, it can refer to a life or an individual, it can eat, it can live, it can die, would not function without the blood, can refer to a dead body, could be touched, has feelings and desires, is related to breathing, and can be associated with the throat or neck. Despite our opinions, a comprehensive examination of the Old Testament's usage of "nephesh" indicates a primarily physical nature. I think that J.P. Moreland is overcomplicating this topic. I believe the biblical understanding of "soul" is as simple as Genesis 2:7 lays it out – we are living beings. A soul isn't a ghost in the machine, but a physical, organic, creature.

  4. “Immaterial substance” is an oxymoron.
    All of this is, quite clearly, coming from the perspective of a rather particular religious tradition. Bias much?
    None of this discussion addresses the question of what is the distinction between consciousness, which is undeniably a thing, and “soul”. I'll take the liberty of doing so here:
    Unlike consciousness, the soul is immortal.
    Unlike consciousness, the soul is indivisible.
    Unlike consciousness, the soul is uniquely human.
    Unlike consciousness, the soul is created at the “moment” of conception (not really a moment, but whatever).
    All of these properties are either unfalsifiable or conflict with actual reality-based observation. We must conclude that, by this definition at least, souls are a fiction invented by people who literally had no idea what their brains were for.
    Moreland talks about “correlations between mental states and brain states”, the so-called neural correlates of consciousness. If he were discussing any other physical system, he would not hesitate to discern causality, not mere correlation. I remind you that mental states, including unconsciousness, can be caused by various forms of physical interventions in the brain.
    He got no pushback from neuroscientists, I presume, because they are, by and large, not philosophers.
    Regarding NDEs, Moreland seems to be citing Dr. Ring's study, which I already addressed. It's interesting, but not terribly convincing. I am, however, quite curious to know more.
    He presumes that consciousness is an all-or-nothing sort of thing. This corresponds to the Christian notion of the indivisible soul (one of the properties that I've enumerated to distinguish it from the infinite varieties of consciousness), but it doesn't actually correspond to reality.
    The discussion of pain is tantamount to the “Mary's room” thought experiment. Sure, conscious brains have subjective experiences. I still don't understand why this should imply the existence of anything resembling a “soul”.
    His discussion of continuity of self is likewise a non-issue. The person you were 20 years ago is not who are you today. When you were two, you were a different person entirely. Moments after your conception, there was no “you” to speak of. To say you these versions of you share the same “soul” is meaningless.
    He ascribes to this “soul” the characteristics of personality, memory, and cognition. One must be willfully ignorant of a century of neuroscience to believe that these are not rooted in the brain. Like Dr. Egnor, this just makes me question his credentials.
    The whole discussion of morality seems more like a description of what Moreland wishes were true than what actually is. Let's remember that science describes what is, not what should be.
    The free will issue is a good one, and one that has been discussed at great length. It seems to me that every decision we can make comes from one of two places: Either it is a result of a deliberate, rational process, or it comes from a mysterious, subconscious place. In the former case, the result was predetermined, since a computer would have arrived at the same conclusion given the same inputs. In the latter, no free will can be invoked either, since the source is unconscious, and so beyond any deliberate control. We must conclude that free will is an illusion, much like the illusion a child has of directing a car when she steers a toy steering wheel in the direction of the vehicle while sitting in the back seat.
    Lastly, “The idea [of a thinking machine] is absolutely ridiculous.” Well, that certainly dates this video. Two years old now! My how the world has changed.

  10. To sum this up quickly, because life is short, this happens when you think "but it can't be that way!"
    Thinking thoughts, "gaining insight" (which is really simple intelligence, amassing information from the world around us so that we can conserve resources, can be, for lack of a more specific term, represented in the trillions of positions and interactions of your molecules at any given time.
    You aren't the EXACT same individual as you were yesterday. The change is barely recognizable. You see this more over a period of time. You're not the same person as your child self.
    Mental medications, documented head injuries, and studies (one showed about how 80% of your mood is dependent on your gut Flora because they're interacting with "you" on a chemical level) have shown the personality is intertwined with our bodies. Our creeds and convictions become innate due to something as simple as having hands. It's not socially acceptable to bite things and others, even though it wouldn't be a second thought in an animal without arms, hands, and thumbs.
    And the uncomfortable thing is, we're never heard from again when our bodies die. That is why death is sad and scary. It's the end. No do overs. That's why we need intelligence.

  11. This was a failure of a presentation on many levels for me.

    I would suggest that a presentation be made simply SHOWING what JP is claiming with regard to a soul and HOW such works. His attempts to undermine a materialistic / deterministic model was absurd and quite frankly pointless to me since it is clear to me that he either doesn't understand it or was deliberately misrepresenting it.

    It should be noted that my reason for watching this was an attempt to understand idealism; and there was a net zero with regard to any advancement of understanding. However, there is now a suspicion that the whole of it is garbage.

  15. Intellectual assertions are not evidence, and all we are getting here is a convoluted opinion with absolutely no evidence. Philosophy is intellectual guess work. One can trace Western thought for thousands of years. However, as science became more and more dominant in its ability to produce evidence, philosophical guess work and opinion became less and less reliable regarding material reality. Studies in consciousness will make this guy's rather flimsy book a nostalgia piece for the sentimentalists among us. Theology itself is nothing more than an abstract intellectual construct, enhanced with emotional feelings of certitude, that needs to be propped up and kept viable through Church, Bible Study and hymn singing. Walk away from those and the intellectual construct disappears, leaving a residue of emotional and sentimental angst, that over time can be assuaged with far less harmful remedies other than the noxious theology found in Christianity.

  17. No matter what physical parts you put together, you CANNOT get consciousness. That's why I've always believed scifi-type AI to be impossible. Consciousness is not the same as information, computation, or data. So what is it? It's not something we've ever been able to replicate. Computers aren't made out of the right things.

  18. This provides absolutely nothing different or new about the existence of the soul. One of his arguments for the existence the soul is the fact of continuity of a person. Understanding the nature of memory more than account for this phenomena. If a person loses all of their memories it can reasonably claimed that they are no longer the person which they were prior to this total loss. You don't need to invite the fiction of a soul.

  19. Always love listening to JP. I've read some of this stuff in the book Philosophical Foundations of a Christian Worldview by JP and William Lane Craig. Gotta admit, reading it is more difficult than hearing JP explain it

  20. Fascinating and very convincing.
    Couple of questions : assuming body and soul come as a couple, is it possible that multiple souls inhabit the same body (eg schizophrenia )? Can a demonic entity take possession of the body?

  22. Absolute PROOF we are living in the last days because ALL CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS AND DENOMINATIONS HAVE THE VERY SAME CORE BELIEFS AND ARE PAGAN …..

    A simple study to see the differences between all 41,000 Christian denominations will show ONLY MINOR differences BUT a close look at the CORE BELIEFS know as "The profession of Faith" of each of the 41,000 denominations will show they are EXACTLY THE SAME……
    ……………………………………..
    Protestant also includes ALL of the 41,000 denominations baptists , SDA, Pentecostal , Methodist, Assemblies of God and on and on AND ALL of the 41,000 ..
    ……………………………………..
    In the 4th century of the Roman Empire Constantine who himself thought he was a god, was frustrated at all the pagan religions springing up in Rome that caused bloodshed and division and knew he could not just kill and continue to persecute all the Christians SO HE decided to bring them all together in ONE UNIFIED "UNIVERSAL" ROMAN CHURCH….
    …………………………………….
    The word "catholic" literally means "universal" .. The Latin word is catholicus, and in Greek it is katholikos.. The word in English can mean "including a wide variety of things"= universal , all-embracing= universal .
    ……………………………………..
    The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. MARY was then given the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos(“God-bearer”) were given to Mary…. The "SUN" worshippers were included and became "SON" worshipers OF THE GOD MARY BORE !

    Constantine absorbed all the gods of love, the god of peace, and the gods of joy into ONE GOD CALLED "THE FATHER" and consolidated the gods of war, the gods of strength and the gods of wisdom INTO ONE god called "THE SPIRIT"…
    ……………………………………..

    The pagan Jewish belief of "ABRAHAMS BOSOM" became "PURGATORY" and "ETERNAL TORMENT" was added to fill people with fear and fully obedient to Rome and its increasing demands for" MONEY and Power…..

    ……………………………………..

    In AD 313 Constantine lifted the ban or Christianity and in AD 325 Constantine called the Council of Nicea and formally launched "THE ROMAN UNIVERSAL CHURCH" made up of the bastardisation of Christianity and the demonic pagan cults of early Rome. Constantine made an EDICT (an official order or proclamation) THAT ALL future doctrine MUST REFLECT THE TEACHING OF ROME… ..

    Today THE CORE BELIEFS of early Rome are STILL TAUGHT in every single one of the worlds 41,000 denominations …
    ……………………………………..
    THERE ARE 3 gods The Father is a god the son Jesus is a god the spirit is a god and Mary is the mother of ALL THE gods……
    1/The Father god of love
    ……………………………………..
    2/ The spirit god of wisdom
    ……………………………………..
    3/ the "SUN" god now called "THE SON" CHANGED FROM ZEUS TO JESUS……
    ……………………………………..
    4/ ALL the gods have a mother called "MARY" Jesus the SON god is born of Mary…
    ……………………………………..
    5/ The Father god (OF LOVE) will torment you forever IF YOU DO NOT OBEY HIM……
    ……………………………………..
    The Bible speaks of a "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS" or "whore" church has many daughters. The Protestant and her 41,000 denominations are the harlots daughters as she has 3 gods and the 41,000 protestant denominations are "the many daughters" of the "harlot and whore church system" of Revelation 17.

    The mother of Revelation 17 is the Roman Catholic church and her harlot daughters are ALL the 41,000 Protestant denominations..
    …………………………………………

    The Creators word the bible also warns us that the "harlot and her daughters" will be dressed in "purple and scarlet" the exact colours that bishops and cardinals wear in both the catholic and protestant church ..!!!

    ………………………………………..

    THE PROFESSION OF FAITH of every single one of the 41,000 denominations AGREE COMPLETELY WITH ROME AND USE CLEAVER WORDING TO HIDE THE FACT THAT ALL 41,0000 DENOMINATIONS ARE FULLY AND WHOLLY PAGAN AND DEMONIC AND TWIST SCRIPTURE JUST LIKE SATAN TO SUIT AND AGREE WITH THERE DOCTRINE OF MEN!!!

    ………………………………………..

    THE CREATOR GOD PRESERVED THE TRUTH AND CAN BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE """ONLY""" TO THOSE WHO STUDY FOR THEMSELVES AND WORK TO FIND THE TRUTH………
    ………………………………………..
    HOW TO BE TRULY SAVED 1/ Keep the first Commandment NO OTHER gods Except the Creator of all flesh Yahweh

    2/ Believe in the second Adam the Saviour THE MAN Yeshua / Jesus who was born of a women A FLESH AND BLOOD MAN NOT A god and that he lived on earth and died sinless for your sins and was RAISED FROM THE DEAD BY THE CREATOR YAHWEH The Creator of all flesh (Romans 10:9)

    …………………………………………..
    The fact that all the worlds Christian denominations are now pagan backs up the teaching of Jesus Christ that "THE END TIMES" would be the same as "IN THE DAYS OF NOAH" WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD WAS ALSO PAGAN except for "a few" ………
    …………………………………………….
    Time to wake up Church …THERE WILL NOT BE A NEXT TIME !!!
    ……………………………………………
    Taken from the FREE book “What every person should consider now”. A fully interactive and simple to read book that is not part of any church or any denomination allowing the writer to tell the absolute truth and shame the devil. Get your FREE copy at http://www.godsairforce.org

  25. The problem for me here is the complexity of computers will exponentially increase as quantum computing comes to the forefront. Combine that with sensors and intelligence programs modeled after the human mind and we have the base complexity for consciousness. If the soul is in existence from zygote (which I do believe) why would consciousness not exist within a similarly complex system with even more parts? These computers will have more interactions within them than the human mind. We may be creating a tower of babbel situation here where we attempt to create in our own image. Scared to find out what our image is.

  26. I can relate to the car not turning right analogy, that actually happened to me when a friend left a screwdriver on the steering knuckle once. Luckily, I kept turning left to make it home before he removed the offending screwdriver.

  29. Three things: does thinking about thinking set us apart from other animals? Second; if I get Alzheimer's and seem not to be myself, how does that play in? Third; Is it possible that the creator actually invested "himself" in the creation vi a vis the "god particle"? He literally is everywhere and the rocks could cry out and the trees clap their hands?

  31. CT Magazine has a good article on the topic of consciousness/mind not being the same as the brain, and not entirely dependent on brain. It is something different. I thought it was interesting. "More than Material Minds" by Michael Egnor, Sept. 2018. There seems to be another in my search results, but I haven't read it yet: "How it All Began" by Bill Durbin, Jr., August, 1988, quoting Sir John Eccles.