Is God the Best Explanation for Moral Values? A Debate.
This debate took place in 2010 at Saddleback Valley College between Sean McDowell and Dr. Jim Corbett. At the time of this debate, Jim was involved in a nationally publicized lawsuit from a student who claimed he called creationism “superstitious nonsense” and for creating an environment hostile to religion. While this debate was first released on Vimeo, this is the first time it is available on Youtube for a wider audience.
READ: A Rebel’s Manifesto, by Sean McDowell (https://amzn.to/3u8s2Oz)
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What happens when Christians disagree on objective morality? And they're each giving convincing, biblical arguments to support their view?
How do we then decide what is objectively moral?
The problem is with the perception of "The Ultimate God as a electro-magnetic, intelligent force of all-love" as being any of the 2 lesser gods in the bible.
We don't have advanced culture, to the contrary. Our is devolving not evolving. Just now that is hopefully changing. But you don't justify behaviors by its' prevalence in the culture !!
Matter didn't pop into existence from nothing. Thinking and thought came first.
If we can get matter from non-physical aspects, why can't we get non-physical from physical ?
Can't free will exist based on what the matrix permits, and not necessarily God-given? Free will as a given from whatever "perceived God" is subjective to the choice to use free will subject to that
"perceived God". Free will to do or free will to not do – it is still subjective to "perceived God". That's the snag in religion.
We don't know that whales, dolphins, and other animals don't have morality. Maybe for them morality is encoded within their instincts (genes). We can't presume the morality of animals is inferior to the morality of humans. It seems animals have a higher consciousness than humans, imho. I could argue that human are so endlessly debating what is to guide us and why, arguing over belief systems, perceptional disharmony, etc., etc. Animals live with the ease of not having all these conundrums, for them the code of behavior is for the most part, implicitly understood. Based on the lack of arduous complexity, it could be maybe the animals are the higher beings and we, humans, for all of our increasing and ongoing uncertainty are really the clueless ones with a humungous ego that dupes us into thinking otherwise. Sean's presumption that we are better or superior to animals is possibly illusion. People often mistake sophistication as superior and that too is not necessarily true. If animals are God's creation also, why assume humans are the higher beings? We don't know what we don't know.
Jim’s whole argument seems to be that Sean is a self appointed authority, arrogant, and self exalting.
Sean submits to the word of God, just because there’s many interpretations doesn’t mean there’s many meanings.
The Bible is so clear on so many topics it’s embarrassing to pretend it’s all that flexible .
Instead of pretending and hiding behind the whole argument being based on doubting the infallibility of Sean and his “interpretations” of scripture, we should stay on topic? In the end, there is no better explanation for transcendent objective morality, therefore all we’ll ever get is false dichotomies, the run around , vague evolutionary theories, and condescending points.
There are definitely animal groups that have a pack mentality that isn’t exclusively individualistic. So that’s false. And it’s almost saddening that Jim can’t seem to see the argument that God “causes” us to be moral isn’t not the argument at all***. Acting morally doesn’t require “faith”.
Jesus is Lord
A true Christian holds the same views as the church fathers and historical Christianity, the majors are the majors, the minors are the minors, but a century from now a true Christian will still believe what a true Christian believes . Spoiler alert , that Doesn’t include condoning slavery , misogyny , or murder of non conformers etc.
His word is eternal and will never change.
Jim lost his footing within seconds. Sean thoughtfully confronts the common misconception that the fact that God’s perfect standard of morality has been misunderstood and wrongly weaponized, is somehow challenging the reality of God. That’s like having a pristine glass of clear water , mud being introduced to the water and acting like there never was a clear water to begin with.
A Christian doesn’t claim humans require God to be moral, and Sean’s argument isn’t that he understands God’s morals better than any other professing believer or religious person, but rather that objective transcendent morality makes the most sense with God as it’s source and nothing else satisfies this question more.
God bless ❤️
Good debate. Mr. Corbett is quite defensive and rather arrogant throughout compared to Sean's demeanor. Good job and good answers!
Jim Corbett mopped the floor with Sean McDowell in that debate.
How else? Without commanded Heirs Hosts to provide space, from here grows, and came with time given from the…? Students shared "i" AM. As ye know? Creation itself knows its place in front of thee! Even the Sun many will say, vanity all is vanity under the SUN. Even the SUN knows WHO? Likewise the Moon its RIGHTFUL PLACE in front!
Thank you for attending unto our OWN! Unto one another availeth much indeed. Can learn from many foolish conversations to become sincere conversations = sincere answers will be given.
Students shared "i" AM will say, stood up from HIS SEAT. To take the LOWEST SEAT LASTS. Even to washed all the ACCUSERS FEET TO BE GIVEN NEW FEET. Remembering ye once born, to crawling, to walking, and till now. Thy Feet resting upon the very tip of time in FRONT! May I recognize the mileage from thy feet my OWN! For all my Heirs Hosts shared "i" AM is required to acknowledge! Sitting upon judgment and justice in front! Resting upon SUSTAINED! Offsprings preserve. Many Offsprings Perish many different without form and void in front! Angels who persevere and heard the WORD keep watch! Knows belongs to keep watch!
Jesus Christ said who ye will say who i Am? The "AM" came for the little Child born "i" AM. Holy BLOOD STAINS accusers resting upon their hands. Visitations! For none are found to prepared the Way for the little Child born from afar EAST from Phillipi! Even Israel knows sitteth upon? For the Spirit of God of life of the Living. Humility
Even my Angels who persevere and heard the WORD and Heirs Hosts knows? His voice. Can bound all feet. In front of Him. Through HIM, by HIM, and for HIM! All made that are made including all shared Feet resting upon HIS Vineyards!
It's a privilege indeed. To be given New feet to love you!
Where is HE? Where is He? Where is He? Some will say, who is that little child born "i" in the midst of the LIONS and in the midst of the CANDLE STICKS NATIONS resting upon HIS Vineyards?
Unto surrounding about the little child born "i". While WHO raised the little Child born "i" unfamiliar unto many looking for HIM!
What is fallacy? Are ye HEALED in front! Instead of "Illness"!