If Evil Exists, Atheism Is False
Tim Barnett explains how the existence of evil actually hurts the atheist’s case against Christianity.
Watch the entire video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKZDL241JVE
#StandtoReason #Apologetics #Christianity
————— CONNECT —————
Website: https://www.str.org/
Stand to Reason University: https://training.str.org/
Stand to Reason Apps: https://www.str.org/apps
Twitter: https://twitter.com/STRtweets
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/standtoreason93
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/standtoreason
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/stand-to-reason/
Have a question or comment? Call Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason live Tuesdays 4-6pm Pacific Time – (855) 243-9975. If you’d like to submit your question ahead of time, fill out the online form here: https://www.str.org/broadcast.
————— GIVE —————
Support the work of Stand to Reason: https://str.org/donate
source
"Evil proofs that god exists!"
No one in their right mind, ever use problem of evil as a proof of god dose not exist. It's a puzzle to theists to struggle with, coz you can't have omni-all god and have evil. For evil to exist you need to sacrifice at least one of omni attributes, like onmibenevolent or omnipotent. (Or try to invent clever wordplay to marry this philosophically, wich is more likely would be an outcome)
If someone ever try to use it as actual attempt to "disproof" god – laugh at them furiously please.
P. S. I know video is old, but if it's still on, probably you think it's still relevant, so i can comment here without any shame 😊
ChatGPT:
Critiquing the passage from the perspective of a moral non-realist, several points need addressing regarding the speaker's assertions that the existence of evil disproves atheism and substantiates the existence of a god.
### 1. *Mischaracterization of Atheism and Moral Realism:*
The speaker conflates atheism with moral relativism, suggesting that atheism inherently denies the existence of objective moral values. This is a misunderstanding. Atheism, strictly speaking, is the lack of belief in deities. It does not necessarily prescribe a particular moral philosophy. Atheists can be moral realists, non-realists, relativists, or subscribe to any number of ethical frameworks that do not rely on divine command theory.
### 2. *Objective Morality Does Not Necessitate Theism:*
The argument presented assumes that for objective morals to exist, there must be a transcendent moral lawgiver (i.e., God). This leap from objective morality to divine source is not substantiated by necessity. Moral non-realists, and even some realists, argue that objective moral standards could stem from secular sources: evolutionary biology, social contracts, rational deliberation, or intrinsic human rights concepts, none of which require a divine being.
### 3. *Problem of Evil and Logical Fallacies:*
The speaker uses the problem of evil as a point against atheism by flipping the traditional argument: if real evil exists, then so must God, because only His existence could provide the framework for understanding evil as a breach of divine law. This is a controversial assertion fraught with logical issues. It presupposes that the recognition of evil requires a universal standard, which non-realists would argue could just as well be a human consensus based on empathy, societal functioning, or evolutionary advantages.
### 4. *Misinterpretation of Moral Relativism:*
The speaker simplifies moral relativism to personal whims about likes and dislikes, equating moral judgments with preferences for ice cream flavors. This trivializes a more complex debate within moral philosophy about the bases of ethical reasoning. Moral non-realists might contend that even if morals are constructed or adapted, they can still be serious and consequential in guiding human behavior and forming social norms.
### 5. *Evolutionary Ethics and Misrepresentation:*
Citing Richard Dawkins and Michael Ruse, the speaker argues that under atheism, morality is merely an evolutionary by-product without true substance—just emotional responses like preferences. This representation overlooks the depth of secular moral philosophies that derive ethical imperatives from rational assessments of human well-being, societal health, and other secular considerations that promote a flourishing human community.
### 6. *Appeal to Authority and Selective Quoting:*
The reliance on authoritative quotes (C.S. Lewis, Dawkins, Ruse) to frame the discussion reflects a selective and potentially biased interpretation. While these figures are influential, their statements are used here to narrowly define atheism and morality in a way that supports the speaker’s argument, without acknowledging broader philosophical contexts or alternative interpretations that these authors also contribute to.
### 7. *Philosophical Inconsistency:*
The speaker's argument that recognizing evil necessitates a belief in God because of the need for a moral compass suggests a philosophical inconsistency: if God is necessary to ground moral laws, what grounds God's morality? This circular reasoning highlights the challenge in claiming that moral objectivity must be divinely anchored.
### 8. *Reduction of Complex Moral Discourse:*
The analogy comparing moral disagreements to disputing tastes in ice cream overly simplifies moral discourse. Moral non-realists might argue that ethical reasoning involves complex negotiations about well-being, harm, justice, and future societal impacts—far beyond mere expressions of preference.
### Conclusion:
From a moral non-realist's standpoint, the speaker's arguments present a flawed understanding of both atheism and moral philosophy. A non-realist would advocate for understanding moral sentiments as human constructs that are significant and meaningful within their societal contexts and can be justified through human reason and empirical understanding, rather than divine fiat. This approach respects the complexity and depth of moral reasoning and acknowledges its capacity to guide human action without recourse to supernatural explanations.
First of all, atheism just means I dont believe in any god, it isn't a moral philosophy. And secular morality is totally a thing, look it up.
Second, "if evil exists atheism is false" is an asinine concept.
Third, yes Tim, morality is subjective. Even yours. The difference is we atheists own accountability for our moral choices, good or bad. You instead excuse your bigotry and the suffering you inflict pointing to god will, evading totally your own accountability for your choices. What a moral take is it, Tim?
And to cement down how it works, look at this exercise:
"God wants us to not kill each other, therefore killing is deemed immoral. so we can have a secure society to thrive."
This is the same as:
"To have a secure society to thrive, killing is deemed immoral. so god doesn't want us to kill each other."
Can't you see how god is redundant in the second sentence? The first part is enough to justify deeming killing immoral, and if for you it isn't, the problem reside all between your ears. Can you see how one can have a secular morality? I bet yes, but you want to be dishonest about that. Shame.
atheist like myself do have standards for morality, the well being of thinking beings, in any case, even animals have a sense of morality, it's not difficult. You couldn't and wouldn't get your morality from the bible or the God of it, because the bible and in particular the #god of the bible, is OK with genocide and genocidal rape, slavery, human sacrifice and eternal punishment for finite crimes and thought crimes.
Even if God did exist, morality would still be subjective because God would be the subject experiencing the abstract concept of morality.
The term “Objective Morality” is an oxymoron. Morality is an abstract concept, which means it is, by its very nature, subjective. You can’t have objective morality the same way you can’t objective luck or objective humour. This man doesn’t understand how words work, which means his arguments will always fail.
Atheism has nothing to do with evil. Atheism has to do with the existence of your god. Nothing else. Nor is your god needed for evil to exist.
God is fiction in every religion, culture, and language, everywhere, every second of every day, 365. Religion is no solution for the requirements of humanity in the 21st century, never was.
The sooner humanity understands this, the sooner we can get to work in unison for humanity actual.
your initial question FAILS because you dont even realise the basics of the actual objection being that it is meant to start from the standpoint of looking at your own holy books moral code which YOU lot claim is your gods morals to point out from YOUR OWN GODS SUPPOSED MORALS, it is a hypocrite. objective morality doesnt even need to take a step into the equation and flat out has no feesable way it could exist nor any reason it needs to exist either with only you guys claim it does exist and that it needs to and leave it at that as if its just natural we all accept your claim just cause.
Racism doesn't exist
Bad and evil people do exist
Nope lol
Great video, Jesus Christ is the Truth As obvious God is Alive the true Living God Creator, The moral law giver gives life to morality.
while morality in atheism is dead.
Atheism entails only one thing. They don't believe in a God.. That's it! No but's or maybe's. This dude is talking about sceptics not atheists.
To add to this video. Think of a five dollar bill in your right hand. It's legal tender. You might say that it's GOOD money. Now in your left hand is a counterfeit five dollar bill. You would call that BAD money or a corruption of the genuine five dollar bill. In fact you might even call that EVIL. What is Evil? And this is what so many get wrong. Evil is not a thing. Evil is the corruption of a thing. Just like the counterfeit is the corruption of the real five dollars. Evil is the corruption of Good. Can the real $5 exist without the counterfeit? Yes. Can the counterfeit exist without the real five dollars? No. If there is no God, there is no objective good. If there is no objective good, there is no objective Evil. Therefore it's just your opinion that Hitler did evil acts. And he wasn't wrong in what he did. Is that the road you want to take?
That's one of the best counter-arguments to atheism that I've encountered. Well, I had thought of it myself! ;D
"Evil proves God exists."
Then you're God is shit.
Holy shit this is soo annoying having to keep repeating this but christians keep saying it…. "Atheism is false" doesn't make sense! Atheism cannot be false. It is just the lack of belief in a god. It's like saying, not believing in Santa clause is false. It doesn't make any god damn sense!
its amazing how many atheist just surf for this stuff to ridicule it
Every species has different morals.
For some it's ok to kill for others not.
It's subjective not objective
He said, "Here is a well known athiest"
I said, …Who is he??? (i am an atheist)
the human race is ******