What Is the Basis For Equal Rights?
Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason talks with Nancy Pearcey about the foundation for human rights and how the idea of equality flows from the Christian worldview.
Listen to the entire interview here: https://www.str.org/w/nancy-pearcey-finding-truth-march-17-2015-
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It's a bit frustrating to hear folks continue making claims like these; it just does not follow from "not-Christianity" that morals, rights, etc. don't exist. In lieu of commenting an entire argument, simply consider that the vast majority of philosophers are atheist and 56% are moral realists.
As a brief sketch to develop an intuition: we might ask ourselves "if God were good, how would we know?" If the impulse is to provide evidence (appealing to God's actions or features of his nature for example), then the moral standard is independent of God and something to which he must be compared. If instead it is true by definition, then the statement that God is good/ the standard of goodness is a tautology that would be true for any moral standard.
rights are given by people, not a purported god. And those rights can be taken away, provided certain criteria is met
Here is a classic example from this discussion of how the religious do not LISTEN, but rather HEAR what they want to hear. Ms Pearcey is talking about the philosopher John Gray at about the 2.20 mark. I know nothing about Gray, so can only go on her references. She quotes him as saying: "Any concept of human dignity, any concept of humans having a special status, is a secular version of Christianity." She goes on to assert that this means "there are elements of a Christian world-view that are so compelling and so appealing that even non-Christians keep trying to claim them."
It is dispiriting IN THE EXTREME to discover that there are still people like this lady who have reached – apparently educated – adulthood and yet cannot grasp the nuance of what they are reading.
Permit me to analyse it as SHE should have analysed it: First, she should have challenged Gray's assertion that acceptance of these things is a "version of CHRISTIANITY" [emphasis mine]. She should have asked: "why Christianity? Why not any other religion?"
Second – and linked to the first – she should have questioned her own assertion that he was expressing ONLY elements of a "Christian world-view". She should have asked herself whether these might also be elements of Hinduism, Judaism, Islam … It is clear her Christian blinkers are on, thus she is not expressing impartial views. It appears not to have occurred to her that she is insulting a significant majority of the people on our planet. The arrogance of theists never ceases to astonish me.
Third, and MUCH more important, she does not recognise that Gray is saying we are NOT special, we do NOT have "special status" and anybody who claims, in a secular context, that we HAVE is accepting the nonsense of Christianity.
Gray does NOT say what she thinks/hopes/wishes he said. She would receive a grade F in my English comprehension class.
Rights do not come from a god or religion. Christians always try to claim they created anything good.
So there's no non- or pre-Christian cultures that have a concept of human value, is that right? Is that what you're saying? Because, uh, I can think of six entire continents full of cultures that would disagree with that, and that's big talk coming from people who belong to the religion that held debates to determine if my ancestors were "merely animals parroting human speech" that lacked souls or not.
That's why I respect more the Pat Robertson type of christian than demagogues like Mrs Pearcey, because they actually follow the bible and say things like "homossexuals should be stoned to death" instead of brute lies like "equal rights came from christianity".
Nothing, like Christians praising themselves after someone else did all the work.
I derive my moral barring from my empathy and compassion for my fellow human being, and not from a book the commands genocide and instructs slavery.
I define morality as "well being" and do unto others as I would want to be done for me.
The facts of the reality of well being are evident and demonstrable.
This is my foundation for determining what is compatible with well being.
I don't rely on an imaginary friend to excuse or forgive my bad behavior like you the religious do. I don't do good things to receive rewards or avoid punishment from a bronze age myth god.
Because the religious reference an immoral old magic book for their morality and do things to receive a reward or avoid punishment,, it is the religious who are immoral.
Not me.
"Everyone keeps borrowing from Christianity"
Or, Christianity borrows good ideas and pretends that they originated with it. Trying to claim that people cannot reach a conclusion on morality without Christianity isn't a good look.
You understand that your fables do not respect morality as we discuss it today, right?
You have read your fables, haven't you?
I have never heard or discovered a right, moral, etc that did not already exist before Christianity or even Judaism.
Equal Rights is largely a social construct. Society is realising that when all people have equal rights under the law, society tends to prosper.
Pointing to God as a source of equal rights can be disputed by showing in the Bible all the times he acted against equal rights.
If our rights were given to us from God, seeing as God is supposedly the creator of all things. Then wouldn't we all have the same rights? Because I happen to know for a fact, that we do not all have the same rights
Non-biblical basics of morality are much older than biblical ideas. They’re as old as our communities. It’s arrogant to pretend otherwise.
Name one biblical moral tenant that modern societies all value, that wasn’t present before the Bible was written circa 400 BCE.
🙄
its like you think everyone except christians are people who, for example:
want equity
want safety
want happiness
want to live good, long healthy lives
etc.
you morons are basically arguing that everyone else was/is "alien" and somehow want the opposite of health and success… UNLESS [we] "borrow" from your "worldview".
well, if that worldview rests on being okay with a murder of an innocent guy (jesus… if he existed) to substitutionally atone for "sin" OTHER people committed, then im out.
It’s a good conversation starter but NOT the focus. The focus is always Jesus and the Gospel, your sin, the wrath of God , and the Savior.
May I ask why one couldn’t glean the same from Judaism? Also the concept of equal rights presupposes rights. How can we ground that?
Lies don't need basis
Where is this full interview?