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Dawkins’ Contradiction

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Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason discusses an argument offered in Richard Dawkins’ “The God Delusion.”

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37 Comments

  1. Dawkins—one of the most famous atheists of the world—does not really understand the biblical conception of God, which he spends much of his book writing against. Here are some resources to help you respond to the attacks of New Atheists like Dawkins.

    How Should a Christian Approach the Arguments in Richard Dawkins’s Book?
    https://rsn.pub/4bywUAP

    Answering the New Atheists—Part 1
    https://rsn.pub/4byG14z

    Answering the New Atheists—Part 2
    https://rsn.pub/3uzH6s5

    Answering the New Atheists—Part 3
    https://rsn.pub/3OFveeQ

    Always Ask What They Mean by “God”
    https://rsn.pub/3SBM0Nb

  2. I'm a plumber. When I look at every created "thing" here on earth as well as beyond, I believe in God. To believe in God I am perfectly comfortable not being able to understand or explain everything God or the cosmos. Dawkins and persons like him seem to be uncomfortable not being able to understand and explain everything God or the cosmos. To me, it is the height of arrogance and ultimately very foolish.

  4. But being able to change one's mind is not logically impossible. So it should be part of the definition of "all-powerful." All Greg's answer is saying is that God is perfect with respect to knowledge and doesn't have any imperfections, such as having to change his mind. But this is exactly the problem: God doesn't have the power to do something that is logically possible, so he's not all-powerful!

    If Greg responds with, "Omnipotent means God only has the power to do what's in his nature," then this reduces omnipotence to nothing. It would apply to everything in existence! My dog only has the power to do what's in his nature… so he's omnipotent!

    #CriticalThinking

  9. Also…I believe you have made an Ad Hoc Fallacy here.
    Omnipotence = All powerful, able to do anything.

    To add "….that is logically possible" is an ad hoc fallacy.

    I must admit though, it was a great, and very interesting attempt.

  10. Dawkin's is playing with you here, he's having a bit of fun with your beliefs…..if you want to get his interest, your job isn't playing around with definitions, your job is to provide sufficient and convincing proof of existence of your god.

  11. Exactly! Thank you. Dawkins makes alot of assumptions
    in his reasoning concerning God because he has God limited
    to that of a man or super human being. In spite of his intelligence, he lacks the ability
    to step outside his tiny mind and imagine a being (God) who is outside of time and space
    who is omipotent and omniscient. He just refuses to let his mind think on these things…

  12. The concept of omnipotence is logically inconsistent because by definition you would have to be able to do things that were logically inconsistent (like square circles or a boulder so heavy you can't lift it but you can because you are omnipotent, etc.) Christians believe their god is omnipotent, and Richard Dawkins just points out that if even part of your faith is based on that, then you should discard it. Then he goes on to list many more logical inconsistencies, eventually pulling down all the major apologist defences with science, logic and reason.

    All this guy does is say "Just because god can't make square circles doesn't mean he's not omnipotent." This is pretty terribly logically inconsistent, but I bet to him it is consistent because his faith allows for a large degree of selection bias overriding simple logic.

  13. The majority of atheists would describe themselves as "agnostic atheists" as logic informs us that there may indeed be a God and its just a matter of finding him.

    Not believing one way or the other doesn’t fully describe the issue. There might be a Bigfoot but I haven’t seen one and it is a surreal claim so I don’t believe but I remain “agnostic” as it is also possible.
    If you told me you had a dog I am likely to believe you do, but I would still be agnostic.
    Skepticism is very useful 🙂

  15. "So are you an atheist, theist, or agnostic?"
    I prefer skeptic as it says much more about the condition under which I labour than the the term "agnostic atheist" which is a very narrow descriptive of only one of the myriad of results of my skepticism.
    The problem with "agnostic atheist" as a term is it lends itself to crystallising theists into seeing an enemy and dialogue becomes either guarded or hostile….. we are all skeptics to some extent or other, there is no escape from that.

  16. Okay, your grammar is very difficult to follow, but yes, I am aware. That sort of thing happens all the time with me. That's how I escaped "christian fundamentalism" which isn't Christian and far from sensible, so it should really be called "heresy" but that's just me.
    So are you an atheist, theist, or agnostic?

  17. OK, you are aware there are some almost all pervasive deceits occurring in general thought?
    EG: we are taught that there is such a thing as "a selfless deed"… when we discover this deceit (amongst others) we are driven to extreme skepticism to re-build our "knowledge" upon that which is demonstrable so that we may avoid being seduced from the truth again by our fear, vanity, pride, greed etc.
    The objectification of truth delivers love, morality, justice, cured polio and took man to the moon.

  18. Have you ever tried to wrap your mind around a hyper cube? A God that consists of more spatial dimensions than us easily explains his omnipotence, and the fact that he is one but also three persons is somewhat of a mystery now, but I have no doubt that science will eventually come up with something that will make sense of it.

  19. Oh, there's a twinge. On occasion. But then I study things that have nothing to do with doctrine and realize it's all true and logical. I don't sing any arias btw.
    See, you're imposing nonsense limitations again. They make sense to you, because of your framework for reality, but there's much more to reality than you can see. Visible matter and energy only make up an estimated 5% of the universe. Not to mention the 9 physical dimensions model + 2 dimensions of time.

  20. So while he was 100% man he spoke to this "other" facet of himself which would make him not quite 100% man because he necessarily was man + something else!
    I reveal plenty, you just refuse to use logic when looking at your God claim… you use logic it in "all" other arias of your life but not this one, it is a bizarre thing to behold from this side of the wall.
    Does it not tug at your curiosity at all?
    Is there never a twinge that you may be mistaken?

  21. He was speaking to another facet of himself. God's only begotten son IS God. And is with God. See John 1.
    You aren't revealing anything. You are making logical mistakes / don't knowing what you're talking about.
    God doesn't have to think he is only a man in order to experience life as one. Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God.
    Why don't you study basic doctrine before pretending we believe things that we don't actually believe?

  22. LOL.
    So who was he speaking to when he said "My God, why have you forsaken me?"
    Or who was God's "only begotten son"?
    I am not "applying" limitations, I am revealing the limitations of the Abrahamic God.

    PS: memory does not solve with the problem… God "thinking" he is only a man is an error as scripture says God doesn't make errors… take your pick.

  23. So he can't remember anything as soon as he turns God mode back on? Oh and by the way, HE TOTALLY DID LIVE AS A MAN. SHOCKER I KNOW. That was Jesus.
    You're applying a lot of limitations to him that he doesn't have. When he was on the earth as Jesus, he was also God. Doing God-things and stuff. So he totally was one AND the other. At the same time.
    Time. There's another issue with what you're saying. He isn't limited by such a thing. He made it. He is outside of it, but may enter into it.

  24. While his "God mode" is off, he is no longer God, he is a subset of God or God minus a huge chunk of God (doesn't quite make sense does it)
    Then when he returns to "God mode" he is relinquished of this ignorance or reunited with the parts of himself that as a whole made him God.in the first place.
    He can only be one or the other, ergo, lacks some knowledge in either position.

    Can you not see the problem?
    Accessing our mind does not solve the problem as he is still God when he does so.

  25. So an all powerful God can't create a simulation in which he is limited as we are, and chose not to enable "god mode" for the duration of the simulation? Or maybe he just knows because we know. Since an all powerful being would certainly have the capability to access the human mind in any way he pleases.

  26. I wouldn't know, do you?… besides that, imagination is not the same as "knowing"… I could imagine all day long what sex might be like but I didn't "know" what it was like until I "knew" what it was like.

    So, how do we deal with the problem?… you know what its like not to be God and God does not know what its like not to be God ergo God as smart as he may be, cant know "everything" and you now have solid proof of this.
    If the truth is important to you, you have some work to do.

  29. Does this all knowing God "know" what its like to have a beginning?
    Does he know what its like to be moral?
    Does he know what its like not to be God?
    Does he know what its like to have an equal?
    The list goes on and on.
    We know plenty that God cannot know.

  30. It's interesting to see your take on this and the line of reasoning you employ. I always just thought that ***in the event that an omniscient and omnipotent being exists***, it is only natural that we will not be able to fathom certain aspects of said being due to our inability to reason on an equal level. Just as the human mind simply cannot fathom the "beginning of everything", we likewise should not be so foolish as to assume that we are capable of fully understanding an almighty entity.

  32. Fasting is a spiritual discipline that accompanies prayer. Its through both prayer and fasting that the believer draws closer to God. So I think fasting is more an issue of the believer being available to connect with God more through the discipline, rather than God responding to the discipline. That's my 2c.

  33. He is probably thinking of Romans 1:20 "For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God." Basically everyone knows God by His creation, a fine-tuned universe.

  35. Thats the thing that puzzles me, is how people can lie straight to their own faces. Deny objective morals exist and then condemn Christians for being immoral. Make up your mind do morals exist or dont they exist ? You know they exist because of your conscience. When your caught beating off to lil wayne, you know you did something you should not have done. This is because there is a way things aught to be. EVERYONE KNOWS GOD, they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

  36. You are a sinner, you know you are a sinner, you know you have done things you are ashamed of that you would not want people to know about. Perhaps you beat off to your sisters friend, perhaps you stole from someone, perhaps your holding a grudge against someone and you refuse to forgive them, your a sinner. The simple fact is you know your a sinner, i do not even have to tell you this, you know it. You can deny it, but you know you are. Denial is not the answer, FORGIVENESS IS.

  37. Why do you not admit it, stop beating around the bush, you have shown your ignorance inside and out on such topics. You hate God, no matter what evidence there is for God, you will not accept it. Its that simple, and its sad that you would sell your soul for what ? What does it profit a man to gain the world and loose his soul ? Why in the world do you hate God so much ? What has God ever done to you that you hate God so much ? NOTHING !